Curse

Paperfly · Sep 09, 2006, 05:16 AM // 05:16

Options are not always a good thing. You'll notice companies tell you so when they're adding options to drum up enthusiasm, but most of the time they'll hide behind the truth (funnily enough): Sometimes adding options will break the core design of the game.

Let's say every game ever has an infinite health cheat - ooh, an option you can use or not! But at the same time it'll basically kill the game's replayability appeal.

Now, in this particular instance, I don't particularly mind one way or the other. It seems like a weakening of the business model, and it does split the playerbase slightly (though not by very much). On the other hand, it's a requested feature that people have already stated they'll gain increased enjoyment out of the game from.

It may yet be a blow to Prophecies (and later Factions, but capping is a lot faster in Cantha) in the long term - the "deserted outposts" syndrome might be exacerbated... We'll see.

Quote:

Good Job on Anet's part by not letting the new players get left too far behind.

...Probably the most convincing argument so far. That brings my opinion around to 60% positive, or "Mild Approval With Some Reservations (tm)".

On the technical side, I'm perfectly happy with the explanation that withdrawing single class unlocks is necessary for coding reasons.

...I wouldn't suggest holding your breath waiting for a Nightfall unlock pack, though. ANet is presumably smart enough to wait for at least one ladder season (in wich Ch3 is legal) so as to - ahem - encourage people on the competitive end of PVP to buy the expansion right away. Why undercut their own product launch?

Legendary Battousai · Sep 09, 2006, 05:17 AM // 05:17

WTB Character Build Storage: $10 Dollars or 100k! Awesome way for Arena.net to make money! And a great benefit for PvP'ers.

Autumn_Leaf · Sep 09, 2006, 05:17 AM // 05:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Locust

Gaile, please confirm my assumption that this will be a $40 prophecies or factions pvp package that unlocks everything in the PvP character creation screen, including all skills, runes and items, at the cost of the PvE world. If this is true, ArenaNet gets some serious praise, and I will be deleting random hate posts without any solid reasoning behind them.

I guess the endlessly bickering about how we needed something like this finally kicked in

Now if only they put a nightfall PvP package out with the same release date as the full game, I would be in GW heaven.

Amen to that, but i doubt it because it's such a new addition. i would expect it though for other future installments, just my guess.

Markaedw · Sep 09, 2006, 05:23 AM // 05:23

I wonder will the future pack include all of the new professions or be confined to the 6 core.

leprekan · Sep 09, 2006, 05:26 AM // 05:26

Whatever happened to the idea of earning those skills with faction? Before Cantha I had everything unlocked at 289k faction. Just by **GASP** playing the game. You condemn the ebayers and Chinese farmers but sell the very thing that shouldn't be sold. Some things should be earned. Just an old pvpers 2 cents.

Lady Lozza · Sep 09, 2006, 05:32 AM // 05:32

Gaile, I realise that Pvp unlock packs only apply to Pvp characters, but what you are suggesting is that there will be a Pvp only version of the game.

If we buy the "full" game we wil have access to Pvp and Pve.
Someone buys Nightfall (full version) will have access to only Nightfall skills, but there are a number of useful Factions and Prophecies skills. If they don't want to buy the "full" versions of the previous two chapters, but still want to be an effective member of a Pvp team, what options do they have? Without the single profession unlock packs (they already have an account capable of Pvp after all) they can't do anything except: buy Factions/Prophecies and take a large amount of time to unlock the skills, or buy the Pvp edition and have TWO accounts.

TBH I don't want to have to Pve on one account and Pvp on another, and I think many gamers who actually enjoy both parts of the game feel the same way.

vinegrower · Sep 09, 2006, 05:49 AM // 05:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by leprekan

Whatever happened to the idea of earning those skills with faction? Before Cantha I had everything unlocked at 289k faction. Just by **GASP** playing the game. You condemn the ebayers and Chinese farmers but sell the very thing that shouldn't be sold. Some things should be earned. Just an old pvpers 2 cents.

I would tend to agree. Except that as more and more games come out with more and more skills, new players will be so far behind that it will discourage most from joining. I think this is why there is a delay between the chapter being released and the skill pack being available to purchase. Also note that they are selling Proh skills now, and will offer factions later, but still havn't said anything about Core skills. You will still have to earn core skills, and if you want to be on the cutting edge, you will need to earn the current chapter skills.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Lozza

Gaile, I realise that Pvp unlock packs only apply to Pvp characters, but what you are suggesting is that there will be a Pvp only version of the game.

If we buy the "full" game we wil have access to Pvp and Pve.
Someone buys Nightfall (full version) will have access to only Nightfall skills, but there are a number of useful Factions and Prophecies skills. If they don't want to buy the "full" versions of the previous two chapters, but still want to be an effective member of a Pvp team, what options do they have? Without the single profession unlock packs (they already have an account capable of Pvp after all) they can't do anything except: buy Factions/Prophecies and take a large amount of time to unlock the skills, or buy the Pvp edition and have TWO accounts.

TBH I don't want to have to Pve on one account and Pvp on another, and I think many gamers who actually enjoy both parts of the game feel the same way.

It is not a PvP only version, per say, but it only benefits PvP characters. If someone buys Nightfall, and wants to use Prophecies/Factions skills in PvP, they can buy these packs and have all the skills on the same account. If they want the PvE side of Prophecies/Factions then they would have to buy the full game, but if they don't and only want the skills for their Nightfall PvP character they will be able to add the skill packs to it. There is no need for two accounts, because these skill packs can be added to any account.

Red Locust · Sep 09, 2006, 05:56 AM // 05:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by leprekan

Whatever happened to the idea of earning those skills with faction? Before Cantha I had everything unlocked at 289k faction. Just by **GASP** playing the game. You condemn the ebayers and Chinese farmers but sell the very thing that shouldn't be sold. Some things should be earned. Just an old pvpers 2 cents.

That idea died when people took out their calculators and realized that it takes thousands of hours to unlock everything by faction alone.

Lady Lozza · Sep 09, 2006, 06:09 AM // 06:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by vinegrower

It is not a PvP only version, per say, but it only benefits PvP characters. If someone buys Nightfall, and wants to use Prophecies/Factions skills in PvP, they can buy these packs and have all the skills on the same account. If they want the PvE side of Prophecies/Factions then they would have to buy the full game, but if they don't and only want the skills for their Nightfall PvP character they will be able to add the skill packs to it. There is no need for two accounts, because these skill packs can be added to any account.

From what I understand, it is effectively a Pvp only version.
The current skill packs can be added to accounts, but the impression I'm getting from the original post is that they will offer a "Pvp version" of the game. Now I'm imagining that it will be available to new players, so new players do not have to have a Pve version of the game at all. My reasons for this is the section where is stated "current unlock packs don't include the character creation". Depending on how they code it you might not be able to apply this "unlock" account to an already existing Pve/Pvp account.

My point though is this:
If (I say IF) we can add this unlock pack to our normal account, then Pve players who only need unlocks for one maybe two professions are going to be suitably out of pocket or else have to work away ingame to get those last unlocks for Pvp play.
If we CANNOT add this unlock pack to our normal accounts, then Pve players who enjoy Pvp, will be at a distinct disadvantage only able to use "iin-game" methods to unlock skills.

S.U.K · Sep 09, 2006, 07:15 AM // 07:15

i usually play PVE and not PVP but i can still apreciate the great things this will do for the PVP going guild wars public. GOOD JOB ANET!

Arcador · Sep 09, 2006, 07:21 AM // 07:21

Great! That should be from the start! =D

Henchman · Sep 09, 2006, 07:49 AM // 07:49

One question that is on my mind:
If I purchase the PvP pack, do I get all of the skills unlocked and ready to use, or do I still have to unlock them the regular way?
I am asking this because the Factions Pack is expected to be released prior to the release of NightFall- meaning the pack is willl be available less than 6 months after the full game hit the shelves. There has been heavy critizism about the skill unlocks for Prophecies. One of the justifications mentioned was that the unlock pack was released over a year after the Prophecies, so people had plenty of time to unlock the skills, thus not putting them at a disadvantage compered to those who bought the unlocks.
But 6 months is hardly much time, even more so considering that not all players buy the game on day 1. Offering all Faction skills already unlocked will put the buyers at an advantage over those who have not bought the skills.

-Loki- · Sep 09, 2006, 09:22 AM // 09:22

I think this thread needs the wisdom of Vindexus

Knightsaber Sith · Sep 09, 2006, 11:07 AM // 11:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Locust

Gaile, please confirm my assumption that this will be a $40 prophecies or factions pvp package that unlocks everything in the PvP character creation screen, including all skills, runes and items, at the cost of the PvE world. If this is true, ArenaNet gets some serious praise, and I will be deleting random hate posts without any solid reasoning behind them.

I guess the endlessly bickering about how we needed something like this finally kicked in

Now if only they put a nightfall PvP package out with the same release date as the full game, I would be in GW heaven.

Where are you guys getting these radndom notions? They are for SKILLS, all skills for all professions for that campaign. It is identical to the Prophecies six pack except for the fact that you don't have to buy the full retail version.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Autumn_Leaf

ok, thats cool. so when a person purchase these packs do they get the new skills added in future installments as well? if thats the case i can't see the price being an issue then.

You seem to be inexplicably confused as well. You buy one of the packs, you gain access to all skill for all professions for that campaign. You'll have to buy the PUP for each campagin seperately. Us pve'ers don't get Nightfall free cause we bought Prophecies.

Nivryx · Sep 09, 2006, 12:24 PM // 12:24

nice comic loki, good point. personally i'll just keep buying the campaigns as a whole but seems like a good idea. keep it up anet.

Zexion · Sep 09, 2006, 01:33 PM // 13:33

A question Gaile. Will ANet be selling "Guild Wars Core" keys over the net? That is, cheap account keys, with say 4 char slots. There will be NO content on these keys. Only an account. No access to a single skill, or PvE campaign. Now, what would be the purpose of this you ask?
Simple! As it is now, it seems people have to buy GWF or GWP to actually use the PvP Edition packs, since they have to log into an account to access the store. So, with GWC keys, people will be able to pay $10 for an account with no content at all, perhaps core skills available for PvP, and then buy the PvP Edition packs for $40 in the store, instead of first buying a full GWF account, and then adding the PvP Edition of Prophecies on. I am sure it will encourage a lot more new people who wanna join for PvP, but not pay for a PvE campaign, to start playing the game. And the more people playing the game, the more money for you, right?

_Zexion

Seltack · Sep 09, 2006, 01:54 PM // 13:54

Awesome.

Way too expensive to have to buy the unlock pack and the game if you decide after playing one chapter if you want to be competitive, this is better.

I still won't buy it as unlocking past chapters doesn't help most people who have seriously pvp'd, but even if you offered nightfall on release (never going to happen I guess) I enjoy pve *just* enough to justify grinding my skills.

A good change.

WasAGuest · Sep 09, 2006, 02:18 PM // 14:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lex Talionis

Nice about time something like this came out for us pvper's. I hate wasting my time going through all the boring PvE stuff just so I can pvp later. For those of you accusing Anet of wanting to make profits like mad, can cut the nonesense. If you've met any real pvper's in this game, they'll tell you they hate pveing to get skills and crap. Lets not forget now, PvE = grind. There are ppl in this world who could care less about exploring, questing forming a group for missions and farming for some godly rare skin weapons.

This may be hard to accept, but this doesn't affect you pver's the least bit. So stop the absurd complaints, grow up and play the game how you want. Thank's to Anet for this nice idea.

I'm on the opposite pole as you Lex, I hate the GW PvP game; but I completely agree with you on the point here. Those that do not like the PvE should not have to play it to get what they need to play. This topic has actually come up several times in other topics as well; "why should PvE/PvP be forced into playing something they do not enjoy?". Now the PvP crowd does not have too...

Now to extend this to the PvE crowd. Favor is a PvP "feature" and it is blocking PvEers from exploring and adventuring in UW/FoW. When America doesn't have favor and the PvEers complain about it, we are told to go PvP (win HoH). However, this same mentality holds true on skill unlocks in PvP; want the skills faster, go PvE (adventure and quest). When can we expect to see this favor system removed? It's all about balance after all, right?

gr3g · Sep 09, 2006, 02:26 PM // 14:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by WasAGuest

Now to extend this to the PvE crowd. Favor is a PvP "feature" and it is blocking PvEers from exploring and adventuring in UW/FoW. When America doesn't have favor and the PvEers complain about it, we are told to go PvP (win HoH). However, this same mentality holds true on skill unlocks in PvP; want the skills faster, go PvE (adventure and quest). When can we expect to see this favor system removed? It's all about balance after all, right?

Tut tut, you're thinking about it wrong. It's not when can we see favor removed; it's when can we buy access to UW/FoW at the online store?

Now selling Realms of the Gods access-o-matic. Go to the Underworld at any time! Buy your Fissure armor at your leisure! Farm spiders even when your region doesn't have favor! Only $9.99 for 100 trips to the best PvE areas in Guild Wars!

achilles ankle · Sep 09, 2006, 02:38 PM // 14:38

Ok...what i dont understand is why are you selling parts of the game even though you dont have to buy the actual game it self. It seems that anet favors the role-playing pve over the pvp portion of the game. I mean lets look at the facts here, you can go out and buy every single prophecies skill for pvp characters for 40$.. and like the post said eventually will be able to do the same for factions skills. Anet...seems like your just sellling the pvp portion of the game and if you are, why not just make it a seperate game like many ppl have asked for/ though about.
If pvp isnt secondary to the pve portion of the game, why cant i buy an unlock pack with all the green weapons for the warrior profession. Why cant i buy materials in an unlock pack, when you think about(i mean really look ouside the box here) it pretty much is the same thing.
If anyone has anything to say such as how these things are differnt, plz im all ears but i just want to know 1) Why can anyone go out and buy these skills even though they put no work and effort into obtaining them(other than rounding up 40$. 2)Plz answer my question about the pve content and why it is any differnt.